Closing a Stubborn Seacock

[Irish Mist]

I have a real stubborn bronze old fashion type with a tapered plug that rotates within the bronze housing. Tried using P B Blaster penetrating oil–even loosend nut on opposite side of handle and hit it with hammer to try to move tapered plug out, But did not want to hit it too hard–all I need to do is crack the bronze. It is head discharge which is low enough I am not worried about ice especially since it does not usually freeze in Deale and I do use an ice eater.

Would be interested in any advice that would help. Do have two clamps on hose and it is in good shape.

Thanks

Joe

[Al Sampson]

Hi Joe,

Sounds like you are having fun! If it were me I would not touch it any more while the boat is in the water.

I would recommend replacing it with a ball balve in the spring if that is possible. Ball valves are all that are used today and they can be lubricated.

Al

[Irish Mist]

Thanks Al,

Good advice. In fact I usually haul and paint bottom every other year and use a diver to clean it in no haul years. 2010 is now suddenly transferred from a diver year to a haul year to in addition to other joys fixing the seacocks. At least I will have fresh paint and a cleaner racing bottom for the Rendezvous.

All the Best

Joe

[Mike Aitken]

Hi Joe,
Al says replace…Not a bad idea.

I’ve got the old tapered wilcox crittenden valves on Iris. The same one is stuck – will not turn. I’ll probably heat it up with a torch ’till its Very warm, but not hot enought to melt sealant, ect and use a large crescent wrench on it….Then when I break it I’ll follow Al’s advice and replace it. But i’m hoping for a bit of luck….

I Lubed all of the tapered seacocks a couple years ago with waterproof grease & they all work great – of course I did not do the “outflow” from the holding tank, since it’s a “crummy” job. So of course it’s frozen…..live and learn.
mike

[Irish Mist]

Hi Mike This is something I got from the Motor boat people on their Web Sites

Stuck Seacocks
Tony; Both cockpit drain seacocks on my trapper 300 had been seized ever since I bought it in 2000. March this year coming up to lift in,I finally bit the bullet and released them.
1. Loosen keeper plate (leave nuts at end of thread),then,
2. Take a heavy hammer (lump hammer) and give a firm but light knock on a socket extension pushed up to the base of the seacock cone from the outside(size of extension or drift needs to be slightly smaller than skin fitting diameter).
3. The cone seized because its probably bone dry, will break free and then can be removed.
4. Clean cone and body of seacock with white spirit and inspect. If both surfaces look serviceable, grease liberally with seacock grease and replace, tighten keeper plate until cock can be turned easily.
5. Cones when clean should have that brassy colour, if they have a pinkish tinge the seacocks are becoming depleted by galvanic action and you may have to consider linking them to your anode or even replacing.

________________________________________
If your going to try the release method rather than the put a new one in, then this stuff ACF-50 is really the bees knees for releasing seized parts, as it actually changes the corrossion byproduct which is what holds two pieces of metal together. Loads better than plus gas or WD. I know only becasue I’ve tried them all. I have no connection with ACF but it really is a must have for boats.

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02-06-05, 21:57

JAYEL
Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Essex England
Posts: 135

Re: Jammed seacock
________________________________________
Tony; Dont try to hammer handle round, you will tear the whole fitting away from the hull. One sharp wallop from outside as I described should do it. Why you no risten (Benny Hill)?

JAYEL
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#10
03-06-05, 10:38

asj1
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Home: North Bucks, Boat: Suffolk Work :central London
Posts: 528

Re: Jammed seacock
________________________________________
Tony,
You have had many good responses. I had same situation when I bought Onia. I laid her up ashore for many months for refit so task was easier. As others have said what finally worked was a suitable dowel (broom handle in my case) shaped to fit snuggly inside and then hammered fairly hard — it just popped out ! I had previously put all sorts of easing oils/ sprays etc from inside.
Having cleaned it up, two grades of grinding paste, finishing with T Cut, then cleaning off and greasing with the right grease etc the seacock is now a pleasure to use – no leaks and a very light pressure to move.
Old Gate valves I changed to ball valves – a surprisingly easy and cheap conversion.

Regards
Andrew
__________________
Andrew

In message dated 8/19/99 4:08:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:
<< cone or gate valving, I guess. >>
There is a vast difference between a cone seacock and a gate valve. Figure
it out and get back to us.
The only seacocks I am familiar with are the Wilcox-Crittenden “Ful-Flo”
flange base, tapered cone plug, bronze seacocks – the big, expensive kind you
bolt onto the hull. They are the only kind I use. Since thruhulls would
only take up space in the flow channel so I don’t use them.
To free a stuck seacock of this type, with the conical bronze plug:
Loosen the plug’s locknut and adjusting nut a turn or two. First spray some
lube juice (I like the LPS-1, LPS-2, LPS-3 series) on the threads. I find a
pair of large Channelock gripping pliers, the kind with the blue handles,
about 14″ long useful here.
Determine if the seacock is open or closed. The mold mark on the handle end
of the plug goes the same way as the hole in the plug. That is, if the mold
mark is at right angles to the hull, the valve is open and you are lucky. If
it is closed grease will not help free it as the grease will go into the
plug’s passageway. If the seacock is open inject grease into it by removing
the two 1/8″ pipe plugs on the body, install two grease fittings in their
place (ordinary steel from the auto parts store will do temporarily, but
replace with stainless very soon) and pump some grease in. Rap on the plug a
bit and wiggle the handle around and stress the valve to see if the grease
loosened it. Remove the handle and put something heavy against the seacock
housing body just above the handle end of the plug and strike the adjusting
nut end of the plug with the biggest, heaviest thing you can get. The idea
is to strikemoderate blows all over to loosen it and then strike with
something very heavy against the adjusting nut end to pop it loose.
If this doesn’t work get a propane torch. Get the kind that has the piezzeo
sparker. You pick it up and squeeze the button to get a flame. When you
release the button the flame goes off. The kind with the turn valve you
light with a striker is too dangerous – I almost burned my house down when
one fell over in use.
Wrap dripping wet cloth around the base of the seacock to keep it below 212
deg and then apply lots of heat very quickly to the bronze body gripping the
plug. It is best to use lots of heat for a short time so use the biggest,
hottest torch you can get. I use the burning attachment for my oxyacetylene
rig. Heat it up and rap on it with your hammers.
It would help a lot if you could get some pressure against the adjusting nut
end of the plug with a gear puller or something cobbled up with threaded rod
and 2x4s.
Grease (if valve is open), rap, push on the plug, heat, back-up the
body/strike the plug. Increase the ferocity of all of these forces until the
plug comes free.
When plug is free, take up slack in the adjusting nuts, pump in grease and
rotate the plug until it rotates smoothly. Later you can remove the plug and
clean it up if you really want to but I have found clean seacocks sometimes
leak. After a while in use corrosion fills up gaps and the seacock stops
leaking. I tend to not clean seacocks but move them often and grease them if
they get stiff.

Good Luck,
Norm
S/V Bandersnatch
Anchored Ocean City NJ
___________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________
Both of my port and starboard sea cocks were frozen solid when I purchased my 53MY. I tried and tried to free them by hand with no luck. I was reluctant to get in there with a hammer or mallet and it is real cumbersome to get a pipe on it. In the end I decided to add this to “the list” of fixes that I plan to do when I haul the boat for a pressure washing and bottom paint. As winter set in I started growing more concerned about those stuck sea cocks. So I decided to try one more time, would you believe it a 5 year old could turn both of them with 2 fingers! I can only assume it was the cold!? After all it was December and the water temperature at the time was very close to freezing.

For what it’s worth, you might be able to place a few bags of ice around a stuck or frozen seacock and call it a day.

________________________________________
Rich Johnson
Washington, DC
53′ MY M/V Lady Elizabeth
Genesis post # 12 is right on.

In addition, there is little reason to fret about seacocks that don’t close for a season or two..as long as you are NOT in a freezing climate in the water during the winter……the chances of anything going wrong that would happen to be ‘cured” by closing a seacock handle are miniscule.

Depending on your boat and the depth below sea level of the intakes, a typical intake hose stuck straight up inside will not admit water…if it does, keep some wooden plugs of various sizes available….you can always cut off an intake hose a foot above a seacock and stick a wooden plug in to seal it temporarily although I can’t think of anything likely that might happen to require such a fix. Another alternative: keep a length of hose available to “extend” an intake hose up higher if desired…find a size PVC that fits inside…you can even use a reducer style PVC, or makea PVC “cap” to seal off a hose if you like. (I don’t recommend any of these as necessary, but if you sleep better, go for it.)

For TAPER type seacocks, loosen the nut (If I recall there may be a nut and a locknut, so loosen both) on the opposite side of the seacock from the handle…the smaller diameter end of the taper plug is by the nut…tap the nut lightly toward the handle to push the plug from its stuck position…if it’s stubborn, tap on a piece of wood to prevent burling the nut on the thread and making later disassembly difficult…then snug up just enough to stop a dripping….
turn the handle to healp seat the plug….next time you are hauled out, remove the taper plug and use one of the greases mentioned already… waterpump grease is one suitable type…

When hauled out: As a last resort, after loosening the nut, applying some heat with a propane torch to expand the seacock and help break the corrosion bond can also help…the idea is the heat the seacock housing a bit and cause it to expand slightly…I’m NOT talking cherry red here, that is WAAAAAAAY too much….

Waterpump grease should be safe to use with any type underwater seacocks. Anywater water resistant ,thick lubricant, which will tend to stay in place should be ok….

________________________________________
Rob Brueckner
former 1972 48ft YF

Re: freeing stuck seacock – 10-15-2007, 01:01 PM
________________________________________
Another idea to consider. Remove the quarter inch drain plug and replace it with a grease fitting. Get a tube of water proof boat trailer wheel bearing grease and a grease gun. Pump her up each day for 3 or 4 days and then start trying to move it a little at a time. Give her a pump a day for maybe 10 days and keep working the handle. Only get one side of the ball, but has been enough for me in several cases.

Pete
________________________________________

[Irish Mist]

Mike,

After all this review. I am thinking about screwing out bolt where grease fitting goes and putting a pipe fitting there with hose to funnel and spraying something like P. D. Blaster. Let you know what happens.

Joe

[Fleet Captain]

Fascinating discussion—but something tells me that the “Western Shore Sheriff” has now just set us all up with the logic that will justify him hauling “Irish Mist” just prior to the 2010 Rendezvous. (I bet the “Rainbow” crew can see through this ruse.) This crafty skipper is a winning machine.

Seriously–excellent insight. I’m of the mind that you don’t mess with sea cocks too much while you are still afloat. “Crew Rest” also has one that doesn’t want to open all the way – it does close. So I’ll happily leave it be until there is solid earth under the keel.

Barry

[Irish Mist]

Hi Barry,

You know the Irish Mist would never think like that. But one does have some intersting thoughts when beating on a stuck sea cock leaning over the head. Maybe it is just fate that detemined I stop using the hamer and wrench and haul and get a smooth bottom and a chance to compete against Rainbow.

Joe

[Rshel34]

I have only had my boat at the Rendezvous once and that was this past June. I have never raced but I think that this coming year I will enter just to be able to witness the upcoming “epic battle” between Irish Mist and Rainbow. This should really be an event.

Bob

[Fleet Captain]

Hi Bob,

Believe me–it is worth the price of admission. To see these two wonderful (and pretty evenly matched) boats go head to head is better than the America Cup. And

---

when you cut through the rhetoric, these two skippers really know what they are doing (although there was some doubt a couple of years ago when the entire fleet started to starboard and “Irish Mist” disappeared to port in search of the “private breeze”). Unfortunately, it didn’t work this time, but I understand it has worked before in Cap’n Joe’s half century of sailing–and what the heck–it’s the grist of great songs.

It was a bittersweet day here in Hampton Roads today as Judy and I wrestled the sails from Crew Rest’s spars (they’re not getting any lighter). But I will deposit them in David Baxter’s loft tomorrow for an inspection and repair. Think I will even abandon my “stealth persona” and have him put the Dickerson emblem and my sail number on the main. Guess, I’d like “Imagine” to know who’s overtaking her in 2010. So, the winterizing is almost complete, I have a manageable “to do list”, and most importantly, the entire Crew Rest crew has “checked in” and committed to the Rendezvous. It doesn’t get any better than this.

As this is Thanksgiving weekend, let Judy and me express our thanks for all of you–the Dickerson family.

Barry

[Irish Mist]

Hi.

I fixed the frozen sea cock so now I won’t have to haul in the spring to work on a stuck sea cock and I can take Irish Mist out for just a few hours before next years Dickerson Rendezvous race to just clean and put mystery wax on the bottom to get ready for Rainbow.

Last week to try and free the stuck sea cock on the head discharge–I used WD 40 and PB Blaster and with a big wrench and some hammering the sea cock still would not budge. My son in law who is a machinist mentioned Aero Kroil which he thought was great. Could not find it at an auto or hardware store so I went on the Internet and through google found the special offer of two king size 13 ounce Aerasol cans for the price of one ($12.00) with free shipping. I received the cans yesterday and went to Irish Mist today to see if it would do any good and to do more winterizing.

I first tried a wrench and hammer on the sea cock. It did not budge. I loosened the nut on the back side and then spayed the Aero Kroil over both the front end and into the end of the tapered plug on the back –.behind the loose nut. As I sprayed I tapped the sea cock with a hammer hoping that would help. Nothing changed–I was not optimistic.

I worked on installing my ice-eater and some other things for about two hours and before going home decided to put a wrench on the small sea cock handle to see if it would move. I couldn’t believe it–it moved and I was able to close it. In fact after moving it back and forth several times I was able to turn it easily. Even though I am not too worried about freezing in Deale MD I feel much better with closed sea cocks during the winter.

I highly recommend Aero Kroil for stuck sea cocks. It is made by Kano Laboratories. http://www.kanolabs.com/google for their special offer or tel 1 866 487 7245

Joe Slavin

[Author]

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