IS THERE A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO FIXING CABIN LEAKS

[Irish Mist]

Hi,

I have leaks in forward corners of forward cabin and aft corners of aft cabin on my 35 ft ketch. Water seems to come under the eyebrow moldings. It has been suggested best solution is to take off eyebrow moldings and fiberglass over seam between cabin sides and roof. Mike Aitken in his note to me –which follows–took off eyebrow moldings and really did an extensive repair. How about 3 M 5200 or something not as extensive? Be interested in your thoughts.

Thanks Joe, Irish Mist

Here is Mike’s note

Hi Joe,

The front cabin corner posts had been replaced prior to us buying Iris. I realized that after we purchased the boat because the posts were made out of a “different” color mahoghany and the “fit/finish” was still a bit rough. The cabin front and sides had also been repaired – Port & Starbord & front . The main cabin sides had “patched” mahoghany sections in the rear 1/3 of the cabin trunk area. It was pretty obvious from inside the cabin, since the colors of the wood were a bit different. We painted the insides of the cabin trunk an off white to hide this discrepancy & brighten up the cabin a bit.

When I replaced the old ports with the new bronze Spartan ports I belt sanded both cabin sides and the front down to bare wood, as well as much of the main bulkhead between the cockpit & cabin, since I found rot below the companionway on the starbord side bulkhead. All in all, a pretty nasty job. This exposed all of the old repairs that had been made to the boat over the years. They were pretty numerous. Seems that there had been lots of leaking over the years that had been repaired using everything from Polyester resin & fiberglass to various patches using polysulfide and/or 3m 5200 as the bonding agent – a odd repair methodology, since paint will have problems (as I found in the last 4 years) the repair joints can “move/flex ” and the paint cracks & leaks. I removed all of these old cobbled together/suspect repairs, and started from a clean slate – since I had the whole area open for repair – and re-did them to my satisfaction using mahoghany, plywood and epoxy and fiberglass.

I suspected that many, if not most, of the leaks were caused from either the eyebrow mouldings leaking where the screws entered the cabin/bulkhead sides or water migrating back up under the fiberglass deck covering (the fiberglass deckcovering “ends” under the eyebrow moulding – so water “wicks” up under the fiberglass, sits there & rots stuff). I found the fiberglass under the entire eyebrow moulding was 100% in FAILURE and not bonded to wood at all. I also found issues where the coaming blocks had leaked and allowed water to migrate behind them, sit there and rot the lower cabin trunk wall.

So my repair… I removed 100% of all the eyebrow moulding. Repaired all rot/degradation with epoxy (MAS) and wood patches. Then, all 3 exposed cabin sides were coated with epoxy and fiberglass cloth. I blended this up onto the cabin top deck about 2 inches and heavily covered the area where the double layer of plywood used for the cabin deck is attached to the cabin sides. This area is vunerable to leaking because everthing has an opportunity to move, crack and leak. I made sure to blend the epoxy/glass down onto the main deck about 1/2 inch to eliminate any “leak” opportunities at the bottom of the cabin trunk/deck joint. The rear bulkheads were also repaired this same way – covered in epoxy & fiberglass. I repaired the coaming block area by removing them, fixing the cabin trunk area with epoxy & glass and re-ataching the coaming blocks . I completely sealed the blocks with epoxy, then bedded them to the cabin wall with a good poysulfide caulk & screws.

I have not, and do not plan in the future, replaced any eyebrow mouldings on my cabin trunk or in my cockpit. I have found almost all of my problems with rot in vertical surfaces on the cabin or in the cockpit can be traced back to leaks in under/over or in close proximity to these mouldings – Perhaps some of my problems were due to the boat sitting on the hard for 10 years in the weather, but other folks I know that have these boats have had same issues show up. I know Dave Heminway in CT re-glassed his D36 cabin top years ago with 2 layers of epoxy & glass and has never had an issue since). Having no eyebrow mouldings does change the look of the boat a bit, but with all the new teak hatches, Dorade boxes ect, there is plenty of bright work to look at. I will not miss it.

I have very strong suspicions that the polyester resin/fiberglass used on these older Dickersons is the culprit in many, if not most of the leak issues that are not related to the failure of a bedding compound around hull/deck penetrations. I have repair areas in couple areas on my deck where the fiberglass had delaminated a bit and lifted from the plywood – and then repaired. I have found a couple more this past summer that will need to be looked at in the spring. Polyester resin, in a single layer of fiberglass, (as used by Dickerson – and others of the same era) is not the best covering over wood for boats. It is known to get brittle over time, crack/fail, delaminate and then leak. Most articles on wood boat repair that use “modern” methods and materials for the repair of wood decks/cabins, ect. exclusively use epoxy resins for their superior adhesion/flexibility characteristics. fiberglass is usually used on surfaces that will be finished smooth. Dynel cloth often is used on decks for it’s “rougher” non-skid type surface – it’s look as a canvas altrnative – and the better flexibility of the cloth. All in all, I’ve used Epoxy and fiberglass cloth for all my repairs – along with the cabosil/wood flour/sanding fillers needed for this kind of repair work. No poyester fillers have been used at all, since there are bonding/compatability issues and some of these fillers (bondo) can absorb moisture. The cabin sides/bulkheads were painted with a 2 part urethane acrylic paint (rolled & tipped on) that loos as nice now as when it went on the boat 2 1/2 years ago.

An “easy” fix on some of your leaks might be the use of an epoxy resin injected into the leak area; Where exactly are you seeing leaks?

I’ve got photos of many of the fun little repairs made to Iris if you have any interest.

I’ve attached 3 photos to give you some idea as to what “Iris” looks like – it’s a great boat to sail & we love how she handles.
Have Fun!!
Mike

[Rainbow]

Hi Joe,

I had the same problem when I was first acquired by Rainbow. Starboard side main cabin leaks. I removed the eyebrows in the offending area and made the repair with new glass cloth.

Several years ago over one winter, I stripped the cabin top completely and took it down to the fiberglass. All of the eybrows were removed. This is also when I veneered the cabin sides with quarter inch mahogany. The original mahogany under the paint was pretty rough and i wanted to have bright cabin sides.

Anyway, I re-glassed the entire cabin top and ran the cloth six inches over the turn of the cabin top and down the sides. The mahogany was veneered over the cloth so it is now nice and dry.

John

[Irish Mist]

Hi John,

Thanks for advice.

Will try it on the corners

Great to have you on the Forum

Talkk to you soon

Joe

[Irish Mist]

In a separate E mail note Randy Bruns –Rythms in Blue–offered the following advice on fixing cabin lealks. The great thing about Randy’s suggestion is that you can un screw the eyebrow molding in the winter and take them home to sand and varnish. John Freal –Rainbow–suggested tightening of bolts that fasten cabin sides to deck. Often these work loose and that could be where the leak is. Just run some water along the deck to check it out suggested John.

Here are Randy’s comments:

“Can’t help you with a quick fix on the eyebrows. Wouldn’t use 5200 as the eyebrows might not come off when they leak again. as they will. Maybe 4200, silicone or that Boat Life caulk that doesn’t harden.

I took mine off, filled all the rot behind the eyebrows, fiberglassed the bulkhead to above the eybrows with epoxy, drilled 3/8″ holes where the eyebrow screws went then filled the holes with epoxy. (I try hard to put screws only into epoxy and not wood on my boat). I then bare wooded the eybrows followed by epoxy. I overdrilled the screwholes in the eybrows and filled those with epoxy. Then I used 2 part polyeurethane over the epoxied eyebrows. Then put the eyebrows back without any caulk. Now I can remove them every 3-4 years in a few minutes and more easily varnish them. Hows that for being anal.

Randy”

[Author]

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