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Beautiful day! I should sailing! I am trying to determine the sail number of Lothlorien former Laura Isabel. Does anyone have any information regarding Timothy Cunningham? He sold Laura Isabel to Robert Bragaw who sold her to me. There were 3 single cabin wooden 36s built in 1972. #179 sold to F. Seville; #181 sold to J. Ford; and #181 sold to B. Nashold. Paula Karr has been very helpful but we cannot narrow this down further. I would appreciate it if anyone has any contact information, old records I could search or wisdom to share.
I would like to petition the DOA to assign Lothlorien a sail number.
Quote from Paula’s email:
,three wooden 36’s, #179 was sold to F. Seville for
26,083 in May. # 181 was sold to J. Ford for $26,294 in August. #
187 was sold to B. Nashold for 27,832. in November.Thank you.
Hi Malone,
Our custom is to affix sail numbers by production completion–per boat class e.g. “Crew Rest” carries sail number 22 as the 22nd D37 produced. “Hemisphere Dancer” carries sail number 19 as the 19th D41 produced. The classes are by hull length without differentiation of single or double cabin. As I research the records, this is consistent with DOA protocols.
The records in my possession are only sporadically accurate from 1977, so there is a bit of “it looks about right” in this discussion. I can fix D36 sail #10 to ” Shalom”, D36 sail # 11 to “Corsair” and sail # 13 to “Compass Rose”–all 1972 boats. By default I think that “Lothlorien” is D36 #12. I’m sorry that the records do not reflect any of the names Paula provided.
As you are aware, “Lothlorien” is unique in that she carries an “experimental” Florida hull number (FLZH8685E772). Barring any objection from the membership, I recommend you proudly display sail #12.
Barry,
Thank you for your research and sail number 12. I will wait for membership feedback prior to clamping ownership. The experimental hull number is very interesting! Perhaps you would elaborate.
Thanks again!
Sorry, I should have used the correct terminology “Backyard Boat Builder Manufacture Identification Code” instead of “experimental hull number” to be perfectly accurate in referring to “Lothlorien’s “FLZxxxxxxxx”.
Federal regulations required all boats produced after 1 Novemenber 1972 to display “Hull Identification Numbers” consisting of the manufacturer’s identification code (first three digits[DBB for Dickerson]), the next five digits are the hull number (assigned by the manufacturer) and the last digits the date of certification.
My speculation is that your boat was produced prior to the requirement of an HIN (May 1972) and subsequently, the owner jousted with a bureaucratic buzz saw when trying to document his boat with the Coast Guard after the requirement was in place. You can understand the Catch 22. He needs an HIN, doesn’t have one, boat is in Florida, etc. etc.
A solution was to obtain a Backyard Boat Builder number from the state and submit that to the Coast Guard. That is consistent with FL (Florida) Zxxxxxxxx. Only speculation on my part, but it seems to make sense.
Thank you Barry for the time and effort you have put forth for Lothlorien and the DOA. One more question. Maybe…. What is the correct Dickerson sail insignia? I believe I have seen D36 as well as a large D with 36 within the D. Thanks for any assistance!
This is a GREAT thread as hopefully we can shine some light on a few “open issues” and gain consensus on a inconsistencies across the fleet.
Whenever I can, I use an original Dickerson source for reference. In the case of “sail insignia”, original Dickerson plan drawings and/or marketing material for the D35 ketch, D36 sloop, D36 ketch, D40 ketch and D41 ketch all used a “Block D” with the boat size inside the D. Sorry I have no source for “Vignette” (D39) or “Chesapeake” (Bugeye).
The plan drawing of the D50 shows a “double line D” and 50 centered below the D although a picture of “Quietly” D50 #1 shows an italicized D with 50 as an exponent.
The D37 ketch is shown with the 37 inside the D just as the 35/36/40 and 41. The D37 sloop/cutter is shown 2 ways. The plan drawing and marketing material for boats up to 1985 show the D with 37 inside. Material produced after 1984 show an italicized D with 37 as an “exponent”.
In the case of “Lothlorien”, you are on firm ground. A black, block D with 36 inside.
As for me—I would like to see everyone use the block D with the size number inside (but that’s just my opinion).
Iris also had a big “block D” with 36 inside and the boat number # 26 mounted below.
The new mainsail has no insignia or numbers at all (bad mike & una!! )….perhaps Santa ought to bring me one this year…….I’ve been very good this year..
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